Shannon Hernandez: [00:00:00] If you were to help someone brand new jumping into this game, would you, and they came to you and they said, Aw, I really want sponsorships for my podcast. What do I do? Do I get sponsorships first? What would you, what advice would you give
Jimmie Whisman: them first? Take your audience sponsor you not necessarily make them give them the opportunity to sponsor you by giving them the best product that you can offer.
And upon and a product that's worth money. When you have that's when you have something that you can do and control your own destiny, because let's say that an, that you get ads and an ad company comes to you and starts barking orders. Then all of a sudden, you say something on your show that somebody doesn't like, and they can go to your ads and they can tell your ad companies.
This guy said this, and I hated that and it hurt my feelings or it made me feel the way that I didn't like to feel well, that company can say you know what? I don't. I value your feelings more than I value their show. And they'll pull that ad and the money. It's not just the ad who cares about the ad.
I'll say anything. I want about all the best companies in the world. I'll say amazing things about them. They won't pay me a dime. It's when they start paying you that it matters. And if they take that from you, because you said something stupid or something that I don't know, maybe you didn't believe it.
Maybe you didn't believe in whatever joke you said. Maybe you did love the joke you said, but that ad company. Person that listened to it. Didn't like it we've been on the end of that hurts. And that sucks. That's the worst thing because they, then it gives the, that power to the audience that isn't really even your audience because they don't like what you said.
And if they don't like what you said, then they clearly don't even listen to your show. Yeah, maybe it is your fault. Maybe you did just out of the blue, say something dumb or you going to take the opportunity. Are you going to just put the onus on taco bell because they pulled their ad from you?
Or would you rather put this show up on Patrion or on some paywall site? Where then for sure. You're beholden. If whatever you say, upset, somebody, they can just [00:02:00] stop paying to listen to your show, then it's for sure on you. That's absolutely all you, and that's all your listeners, because if they're willing to pay for your show, that's absolutely your audience.
And if you piss that person off, then you fucked up. That's when you've really made the mistake. And that's really the avenue James and I took and we chose. Really beholden to our audience. And with Patrion, we didn't go with the avenue of creating some Patrion shirt or some bag or some cop that we send to people.
I don't want you to have something just tangible as like a reward for what we do. I wanted you to have something every week or every two weeks. That would be the duplicate for the show that you heard. So maybe if you listen to our show and you patronize. You're going to get two shows every two weeks, one week you'll get one every week.
And then every two weeks we put out bonus shows and that's not just for small town. Marta. We'll put out a bonus for crime and spoiled crime and sports. And for the $5. Everybody gets them. So you'll get our crime in sports when even if you don't listen to crime and sports, and with our shows that our patron a patron bonuses, it's not just a crime and sports, it'll be like, who knows this week?
We did the Cecil documentary where James and I watched that Netflix Cecil documentary. And then we talked about our takeaway from it or will James we'll find. The Steve McNair case where he wasn't necessarily like necessarily a criminal. He was a great quarterback but a horrible crime happened to him.
It's not necessarily a crime that he committed in sports, but it's certainly a crime perpetrated upon him. And we discussed. We're a small town murders. Sometimes they'll give you a case this week. We did what we call the violent prisoner dating game, where James presents a few timber watch love after lockup.
Shannon is unbelievable. It's crazy. These people will find the go onto this PayPal or this. Pen pal website and they'll write to a criminal that's behind bars and they'll, I don't know, datum for two, three years while they're inside and they're on the outside, sending them thousands and thousands of thousand [00:04:00] dollars that they spend on commissary or whatever they spend money on.
And and then when they get out, basically what it is when you get out, you've got somewhere to stay obviously sex built in, cause we've been hanging on to this for two and a half years, and this has been bananas. Doing this without you. So when they get out, there's obviously sex, there's money.
There's a house built in relationship. Let's start this thing and it never goes that way.
Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. Almost like that sounds like a bad dream are just ready to
Jimmie Whisman: pop. I don't know, baby 20 couples that they've documented and followed. I'll bet you, there are three that are working out of Marcelino the guy from the guy and the girl from Utah.
They're now in Watts. I think they're working out just fine. And the other one was the girl from Vegas and her boyfriend. I forget these names, but Marcelino and Amber have been on. Six damn seasons of this year. I love the show. I can't get enough of it. So James and I watched that and we built this stupid bit that we do where James produces a few people from the pen pal website.
And then I pick whoever it is that I think is the most deserving of my love. Whether it's a male, I don't care if they're a good person. I'm in. And what James likes to do is take four people and it's essentially dodged the pedophile. That's my job is to Josh, the one that's arrested for Dillon kids, and it's not a great time.
And I'm not going to spoil it. But I have so far. Then amazing at dodging the pedophile. Oh good. I'm glad.
Shannon Hernandez: I'm glad. Now when you, so this is bonus content is what you're talking about. This is all bonus content that your car, is it take a lot to build out that bonus content or you just guys just, you just freestyling it from
Jimmie Whisman: that point as key man.
It's just doing, if you say you're going to do it, get off your ass don't and if, and when life comes up and. Sidestep it get around it and do it today. My internet went down for three hours today. I was horrified. We weren't going to be able to record our bonus shows [00:06:00] that was able to get in. And we got it done once James got on with me and we were sat and ready to do this show then there's a, then there's a hum in the microphone.
We couldn't figure that out. Track that down, got everything bugged, worked out. Nothing has been touched since the last time or we recorded. Yeah. Oh, a wire fell over on another wire. All of a sudden you got a hum do it, but if you're going do it right. Put the effort in and do it the right way.
And always put out the right concept without the right product, believe in what you're making, be passionate about it. And it always, what is now, what
Shannon Hernandez: is the tier structure look like for you guys? I've went on your site and I saw the Patrion site and I saw you have $1, like people can, they can donate a dollar if they want.
Then you said 5 99 is a. Bye-bye bucks,
Jimmie Whisman: five bucks. Everybody gets bonus content, but if you want to be a nicer person and go out of your way and give more money, you're more than welcome. We're not going to turn your money down. We're not going to give anything more than that other than so at the end of our shows, I also read off the list of the new donors this week, every week, newest donors.
I read them off anybody. That's $25 and above I give an executive producer shout out. That's what I, that's what I call it. I call it okay. I got levels of producers and executive producers, because that's what they do for us. They produce our lives, they produce these shows. And so I'll give them the credit where they deserve it.
And at the end of a movie, a. The 15 minute list of names of people that made this hour and a half per day. And if that's what it takes, if it takes 15 minutes to get to the end of people that made this hour and a half production work, I'll sit through it. I'll do it. I won't be able to pronounce your damn names cause I'm an idiot.
And I think
Shannon Hernandez: I've heard you say, I've heard you say that I can. I'm sorry if I permiss.
Jimmie Whisman: Rash. And I know nothing of Italian names are the worst. What sense does that make? But I can't do it and I'll do my best. I will read and read the name that is presented to me. And I will try my hardest, but it's not going to be exactly how it's supposed to be [00:08:00] pronounced.
And I'll give you the credit where it's due. I will read the name and then we will give bonus content, but that's really all that we do because it we're it's impact. So
Shannon Hernandez: can you guys, just from what you're telling me, you're just not overthinking the process. It's just it's not over,
Jimmie Whisman: it's simple, be honest, don't lie.
You give them what they want and watch the hands of
Shannon Hernandez: And those executive producer mentions. Those are mentioned in, I want the audience to be clear. Those are mentioned in the free podcast that you're sharing.
Jimmie Whisman: No, that's in the regular show at the end of the week. I read a list at the end of the show.
I'll read a list of names of people who donated this week, and those will be the people that get the new content, whether it's an, a D a D. At all, if you give me 60 cents on PayPal, I'll read your damn name. I appreciate it. And I'm James and I are very we have humility. We've been kicked in the nuts by life.
And anytime anybody is nice to us or goes beyond what they, what we feel they need to give to us, we will mention it. We will acknowledge where people were unbelievable to us. And a dollar is unbelievable. We're blown away by that. If you give any amount of money, I'll read your name. Anybody over five, over $5 and above on Patrion gets a bonus content and anybody above $25 a month, we'll all give them an executive producer credit.
Once I only get, I only do it once. And people are just grateful for that. It's. What people are grateful for, but I think that's a Testament to what this world is. This world is a cold bitch will acknowledges nobody for anything. And if you don't work, if you work hard to pay Your bills paid.
Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't give a shit about you, James and I are thankful for anybody that cares about our show and cares to keep our show happening. And for that we'll be forever grateful and we will acknowledge him at any chance that we get
Shannon Hernandez: for someone. And who's at a particular point in their podcasts.
Like they may not be at a. [00:10:00] James Petra gala, Jimmy Wismon level, but let's say that they are in the middle of their journey, the beginning to middle of the journey. At what point do you think they should start a Patrion immediately? Or do you build the audience?
Jimmie Whisman: That, you know what I'll say this way.
It's not up for them to decide that's up for their audience to decide when they'll feel it, when their audience asks them for more content. Ask them to do more shows or when they start consistently getting, why don't you do this? Or why don't you do that? When they start getting those ideas thrown at them, take those ideas to heart it's because those people want to hear more from you.
It's because those people want not just more from you they want more from you in the form of more creativity bigger things from value. They're telling you that you're good at this. And when they tell you. Listen, do what they say. That's your audience? That's
Shannon Hernandez: your box? What about when they say you suck?
Jimmie Whisman: How about fuck those people
listen there, you're going to have I don't care what you do. You're going to have people tell you that the you're terrible. Howard. Stern's the outlook. I'll go out on a limb. Howard, Stern's the greatest radio personality to ever live. People low with him. It's just the fact people hate him.
Yeah. There, there are people that create things that other people don't like. That's a fact. 8 million people a week, 8 million people a day, listen to Howard stern stuff.
Shannon Hernandez: They listen to them every day. And that's, I think also very reflective of what I think podcasts has tried to create because, I go into these pots.
For who I am. My job is to go into these podcasts or program forums and look at the problems that people are experiencing in there. And a lot of these people are really focused on oh, I don't have the right this, or I don't have the right data. Or this is what's holding me back. Or I'm supposed to have 70,000 followers on Tik TOK because before I can do any of this stuff, and to me, it's just man, why are you holding yourself back on this stuff?
Look at a guy like Howard
Jimmie Whisman: stern. [00:12:00] Yeah, you can't, if you're going to start first thing to don't start comparing yourself to the best. Internally sure do that. But outwardly don't look at a Twitter follower number for self-worth or the value of your show, because that's not true that doesn't reflect anything.
The guy Michael Winslow from police academy is one of the most talented people on earth. You could argue that, whatever, in my opinion I can't do what he can do with the sounds that he makes. I'm still I'm 40 years old. I'm blown away by what that man's capable of doing. He has 17,000 followers on Twitter.
He's been doing this for how long? 30, 40 years. You know what I mean? And nobody follows him. He's much more talented than you are. Probably he's much more talented than I am. And I have twice as many Twitter followers as that guy that does not make sense that doesn't add up. But that also can be reflective because at some point, Howard stern had to start somewhere.
If he started today and had zero followers and he tried to compare that to what Sean Hannity has, he probably quit. Cause that's crazy. What you do is not a comparison to what he does, what you do. You need to be able to have self-awareness and self evaluation and know what you're capable of and your limits they'll grow your self, your yourself.
Not even self value, just value alone will grow. You'll get better. You'll get just like anything else, but podcasting, especially, you're gonna get better at telling him to him. Mike, you're going to get taught. You're going to get better at portraying a thought. You're going to get better at telling a story.
You're going to get better at all kinds of things. And you're also going to get better at social media because. I have what I consider to be way too many followers. And I'm terrible at it because I'll still say dumb shit and people yell at me. That's another point. Maybe you don't want followers right now because you're not good at this and you will fuck that up.
Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. You might just. I just I don't want people to feel as though they have to like, that's my point. I don't want them to feel, they have to compare [00:14:00] themselves to a Joe Rogan mark Marin, and then go into the business niches and talk about Lewis, Howes, these guys who are all in the businesses.
You just got to do what's right for you. I think if you're creating good content, like what you guys have done and you put, like you said, you make a promise. You don't lie to your audience, that you deliver on it every time. That is what resonates with that audience. Who's listening to you.
One thing I wanted to ask you, what. How kind of switching gears, how important or high, how vital was the success or how vital is the success of your podcasts based around showing up on other people's podcasts?
Jimmie Whisman: It depends. So I'll still get messages from people when we did Dan Cummins foggy, cause Dan's one of my favorite comics since I started comedy and I got a chance to work with him before he started his podcast and he was telling me an idea for a podcast and I was like, do that podcast because it's going to be great.
And thankfully today he does that podcast. So we guessed it on that podcast and I'll stop. Messages from people saying I just started listening to time-suck and I heard the episode with you and James. I thought it was great. And I'm going to start losing you that's now. So in terms of pollinating your audience, it can help.
It depends on how big their audience is versus how big yours is. And then you also have the angle of, is your podcast so much bigger than theirs, and then they're just using yours to pollinate theirs. There's that also, you've gotta be able to have some give and take, but then you also have to understand that.
Joe Rogan will go on other people's podcasts. I'm sure. Bert Kreischer goes on comedians, podcasts, and open miners shows these guys will do other podcasts. And it's good. It shows it does. It's never a bad thing. It looks magnanimous as fuck. It looks like you're a sweetheart of a man or woman, whoever you are, sweetheart of a person who goes out of their way to help others.
And that's really what life is about. Isn't it helping others and Whether it's, you're doing it through your show, or you're doing it through somebody else's show or doing some act that helps somebody else. But going out of [00:16:00] your way to help somebody else, I think is a big deal, I think.
And especially in this, because podcasting is a very all-inclusive thing where it feels like podcasters are we're all in this together kind of thing. It's radio kind of thing. Yeah. There are no rules. We are in charge, but you also got to understand that it's gotten so big now and the pool is so big.
Now we're when it started and we were all pirates and we were all in this together. Now we've got some dicks with us. So you got to keep an eye on that too. When we get to police our own, this has almost turned it into like comedy where we gotta tell the bad people and the people that are bad for this.
Either stop it go away or just don't associate with me.
Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. And that's what I do. I just I get hit up almost every day from like some company that wants to do something and it's just no, I don't want to work with you. And in fact, I just delete the emails because what's your point, what's the point or the social media.
And there's no shame in that. Yeah. I, you gotta do what works for you and what's right for you. I got a couple more questions for you. And then I'll let you go because I know you got your daughter tonight and you mean the daddy
Jimmie Whisman: daughter time studio. Shannon. What are you doing? Oh, geez. Oh,
Shannon Hernandez: she has she been pacing to go to the bathroom?
Jimmie Whisman: go in my bathroom. Go ahead.
Shannon Hernandez: So one of the questions that I have, and we look at this, I want to talk to you about. Your tour and getting out on tour. And so not everyone is going to have an opportunity like you guys have gotten that opportunity. So tell me, number one, how did those opportunities present themselves and how valuable are.
Live podcasts for you as far as the overall scope, whether it be, I don't know, it could be monetarily or, just from like a, like a street cred perspective, how important are those live shows for you?
Jimmie Whisman: A lot of things that come with that, Shannon there's there's money.
[00:18:00] There's a exposure. And then there's the street grid. Which one are you in it for? First is what you got to ask. Are you in podcasting to pay your bills or you want it to brag for some prestige or are you in it to have some straight bread? You know what I mean? Or exposure rather? Are you trying to get a bigger audience?
Are you trying to have prestige? Are you trying to have money? You gotta change that. You gotta see how you view it. James and I, again, we're comedian. So we're very lucky in terms of we're capable of doing a live show. It is a big deal because there are going to be a lot of people that do podcasts that are completely incapable of doing a live show, not just because of the way they do their show with the editing and such, or also presenting a story with an audience sitting right there, staring you right in the face.
So you're capable of being approved of, or disapproved. Right now, can you do that, ask yourself that, because if you can tell a story into some man's face who fucking hates you if you can't do that, don't do a live show. Don't do it, never do that because it's going to happen. You're going to have people in the audience that don't like, whatever it is that you're doing, and be prepared to sit through a lot of silence and keep talking through silence because silence is comedian's best tool for building a joke and building a big.
But for somebody that's not a comedian silence is the devil that's brutal and that will eat you out. I've cried. Yeah, man. Oh, your forehead's on fire. You sweating. I feel like you just told your parents a lie and they know you're lying.
Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. Oh terrible. Yeah. I've been down that road and I know exactly which I know exactly the feeling that you're talking about, whether it
Jimmie Whisman: be it's huge.
That's the first thing. First things first. Secondly, are you capable of. Getting booked on a live show because as comics, again, we were able to, we had a, we had an agent when we started doing a live shows with a boutique agency and they got us booked with like live nation and stuff like that to go do smaller venues in the country.
Not. Super small, but smaller in terms of 500 to 700 like
Shannon Hernandez: [00:20:00] small theaters,
Jimmie Whisman: yeah. Small theater. So that's, that
Shannon Hernandez: feels, it makes sense. Right? Small theaters,
Jimmie Whisman: auditoriums, the deals we got were not small theater deals. We got taken on a few things. Moving beyond that we were able to get booked.
Then once you get booked you gotta deliver the goods. You gotta deliver a a good show. That's the first thing. You're going to put asses in seats. How many, how are you going to sell tickets when you sell tickets? If you can produce a great show and sell tickets to it, now you're in business.
Now you can do shows. And if you can do a bunch of those in a year now, all of a sudden you've got a tour and you can monetarily make money off of that. But are you doing it for that reason to sell tickets and make money? Or are you doing it for the Telluride? The, you sold out or you sold however many tickets to a club somewhere or a theater somewhere.
Are you? Cause look, I could sell out a theater in Milwaukee, but if I'm, if I don't have a bad deal and I don't make good money on that I can't tell my landlord, but you know what, dude, I know the rent's due, but can I trade you one month's rent for sold-out Papp's theater? Or do you think that. Prestige doesn't buy you.
Shit is my point. And a landlord doesn't care. Your utility companies don't care that you just sold out the funny bone. It doesn't matter if you're not selling tickets in order to make money. Then don't do a live show, right? Take hatred. I hate to say it like that, but that's really what I just
Shannon Hernandez: call it criticism.
How about this? Call it
Jimmie Whisman: criticism that from a live audience. Yeah, don't do a live show,
Shannon Hernandez: right? Yeah. Criticism and hatred. I've, you've experienced it on a comedic level. I've experienced it on the music level. You get in front of us. You get in front of a crowd. 9,000 people and you try to tell some funny joke and they don't laugh and you're like, it's just crickets.
And you're like, okay, I guess the next band's coming on up, it's just the worst feeling ever. So your point by saying, if you can't take criticism, if you don't, I guess if you don't [00:22:00] have an objective, if you don't know what the objective is and that, and the thing that.
Tell my audience all the time we go, if you don't have your objective set, if you don't know what it's about, what's the point of doing it? What's the if you're not in this, if you don't have an objective set and know what the long-term objective might be, at least from my perspective, when you're doing podcasting, there's no point in spending all the money on all the equipment and all the services and all that.
If you're not intending to figure out how to turn it so that you can make a little extra money.
Jimmie Whisman: And if you're not doing. To take some of that money and put it back into your show. You're doing it wrong because this interview would have been shit on a Sony camcorder with them, this thing was expensive, but it creates a show that I'm very proud of.
And we can put out and build the best show possible, having good audio equipment, having the best editing equipment that you can afford having those two. Is enormous to your show. Putting your best foot forward matters to everything. And if you're not in it for the right reasons, get the hell out.
Don't cloud my pool. Don't muck up my water. Don't clog the stages because you're doing it for the wrong reasons, man. And we don't need you
Shannon Hernandez: one more thing when I asked you this question. Our one more question for you. Looking back on the time that you have created these podcasts in the time and all the experiences that you had.
Gone through from basically I would almost say it's almost like a rags to riches story for you because you have done so well with just this podcast alone and
Jimmie Whisman: it has helped you to divorce, man. It's been great.
Shannon Hernandez: If it can afford you a divorce, then I would say ma that's a success,
Jimmie Whisman: that's the biggest thing that it did for me. It changed my life in. And it gave me the opportunity to be the best father that I can be. They gave me an opportunity to give my kids the happiness that I was unable to provide for them. And for that I'll I'll be forever [00:24:00] grateful.
Shannon Hernandez: When you look back though, what would you have done differently with all these experiences?
Jimmie Whisman: I think that I'm trying my best to really celebrate the successes. I would try harder because when we did have milestone things that happen and achievements that we made James and I had ideas to, have a steak or go to a dinner somewhere or whatever we were going to do to celebrate.
We'd always say we're going to do them, but then life would happen and we'd get. We'd get into the shows and let those really dictate the direction of our free time. And I really wish that we had taken a step back a couple of times and really sat and stared at each other and said, look, this is amazing what we're doing.
The trajectory we're on doesn't happen. And the fact that it is happening, we have to recognize. This doesn't happen without the two of us together and doing this together is really something that I cherish. And I'm sure James would have said the same thing. Yeah. I really, I wish I would've.
I would've been able to, with our successes taken a chance to really slow down and look him in the face and just tell them, look, man, I really value what we're doing. Granted, we have the opportunity to say that every week to each other. In a moment over a bottle of wine or a steak or whatever. It, it changes the I don't know, the tone of the conversation really changes anything.
It hurt it stings a little more. And that's what I want to do. I want to make James cry. I think that's what I regret the most that I haven't made. I made him cry.
Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's kinda my regret right now. I've not positioned this interview to make you cry at
Jimmie Whisman: all. Although I just did a second ago and just stifled at a smidge because I really am.
I'm so grateful for the opportunities to just be the best father that I can be and get the kid that I never had as a kid one being a happy home. And that's really my main objective every day when I wake up is to give my kids that happy home. Yeah. That's
Shannon Hernandez: that's so important. I think that you leave it on such a great note right there.
I wanted to ask the. How has this changed you? And you have just told me exactly [00:26:00] what it is.
Jimmie Whisman: That's exactly it, man. It's if you're looking when we started these, I didn't know that was really my goal until until about three years ago, that was when I really realized that these shows out of the opportunity to give me things.
A day job is in capable of giving me an a where I'm at in my life was not where I wanted to be. And I would have to go to clubs. I'd work 80 hours a week at a day job and go to comedy clubs on the weekend and wear a tie and a button up shirt and host shows and not be the man that I wanted to be.
And Today I have two slaves full of tattoos and I get to be everything that I want to be. And it's awesome. That's amazing.
Shannon Hernandez: That's truly a story worth listening to over and being completely inspirational. Jimmy wizman. I want to thank you so much for spending an hour's time with me to tell me this story to help others.
I've told you in the past that my podcast is not about download numbers. My podcast is about hearing stories like yours, to inspire others, to make a change, a leap, a jump to something better based off of something that they love. And you are a true shiny example of what that looks like when.
Jimmie Whisman: Really though James and I w the hard work that we do in terms of every week the blood, sweat, and tears we put into these shows, it happens through that obviously, but then you also have the audience, but then you also have in the periphery, you have supportive people that you can't you can't forget about, and you have to take the advice of people.
No, what they're doing. And in terms of this profession, that is audio and sound and that's what a podcast really is. And people like you, Shannon are the unsung heroes of this shit because I, James and I are nothing without the friendship that we've received from UA. And then. The technological support, the words of encouragement and really every week popping into the studio to record.
And then you're on the you're on the radio that night. And being able to stop in and talk to you [00:28:00] about where things are going, and then you giving us advice and it's people like you that keep people like us going. So thank you for everything that you did from day one, man, it was literally day one meeting you and you were just the sweetest man ever, and right.
So supportive. So thank you for being you and doing the things that you do for people. Like
Shannon Hernandez: you're welcome you. You're going to make me cry. He was really hard. You're like putting some Wells in my eyes, like a little bit, right? Yeah. Not joking. Thank you, sir. Thank you for the kind words. That means a lot to me.
I appreciate it, Jimmy. People can reach out to you on shut up and get me murder.com.
Jimmie Whisman: I've been giving me murder.com is our website. And then we also on, on Instagram at murder small Look at small town murder on Instagram and I'm at small at murder, small on Twitter. It's a small town pod on Facebook.
Look, these places to the words that you can say, it's fucking lunacy.
Shannon Hernandez: Got it. In the show notes for everyone that'll be the easiest way was just go
Jimmie Whisman: look at this and snacks on Twitter and Instagram. Thank you so much,
Shannon Hernandez: Shannon. You're welcome, Jimmy. Have a great evening with your daughter and we'll be talking to you soon.
Okay. Love it.