[00:00:00] Shannon Hernandez: Welcome back to another episode of The Podcast Therapist. I am your host, the Shan man radio broadcast or podcast or, and a podcast producer. And today is the very first podcast host super bowl. Tom Brady now has seven Super Bowl rings, which is pretty impressive for a guy who is 43 moves from one Superbowl team now has created another super bowl team and very impressive for a guy who continues to move forward.
[00:00:24] But this is not a sports podcast. This is a podcast. Other podcasters and content creators. And I think this episode is just for you and hoping to inspire you and maybe give you some ideas about your own podcast. I think it's very important to hear the journey of other podcasters who have seen success with their podcast.
[00:00:49] And that is why I want to invite you to listen to today's episode and introduce you to my two guests today. Today, we'll be speaking with. Vishnu and Shankar Patman Nabhan and they are the creators of the Writer and Geek podcast out of India. This is a podcast that was inspired a few years back by these two brothers who wanted to create a podcast that shared knowledge based on their desire and their passion for our thirst of knowledge.
[00:01:19] They are self-described geeks. They are gentlemen who have said that they used to carry around encyclopedias and read the encyclopedia as children. And they decided to use their strengths to create this podcast writer in geek. In today's episode, we will be covering not only the very beginning of their journey and where they started with that journey.
[00:01:41] Some of that journey had included seeing some videos of myself on YouTube some content that I had created for another. A content creator. It wasn't necessarily something that was on my own channel. It was something that Vishnu ended up discovering and ended up following me on YouTube. But [00:02:00] he describes how those very first videos that I had created on YouTube had helped inspire him to create and build this podcast from the ground up.
[00:02:10] So we'll be talking a little bit about what equipment he went. He had purchased, I'm sure which equipment he purchased, but the process of how he decided that getting this equipment was going to be detrimental to the creation of his podcast. You were also going to talk about the software that they use.
[00:02:26] You would be surprised what several software that they're gonna be. And of course, you're going to learn how to focus your content and build your skills. They tell a story about how you can meet, maintain your credibility and what you can do and how you can gain some ideas and inspiration from these two creators that create.
[00:02:46] Thoughtful content. And of course there is this one thing that Shankar brings up in the interview today about overcoming the sound of his own voice and what it is actually done and how it has stepped him up into the next level of his own life and what you can do to personally gain from podcasting.
[00:03:04] We'll discover what these two content creators have personally gained from podcasting itself. And I think you will discover that their story is going to be very similar to your story. If you decide that you want to push through some of the harder times of podcasting, when you don't feel inspired, when you don't feel as though the content is good enough, these two individuals hopefully will give you a little bit of inspiration and they may even awaken, I don't know, maybe though arouse you prompt, you, motivate you, whatever the word is.
[00:03:38] They may prompt you. To achieve or set a new goal to become the trailblazer within your own podcasting niche so that you can inspire other podcasters or other content creators to put more knowledge and good into the world itself. I think that is one of the cool things about podcasting is that you can [00:04:00] create a podcast and inspire others to take an action, whether it is starting a podcast themselves, or to take an action outside of podcasting and make a difference in the world.
[00:04:10] So these two content creators, I think, are very important in terms of just getting started. So we're going to talk with Vishnu and Shankar here. Very sure. Stick around
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[00:05:39] Vishnu Padmanabhan: It's time for the mixed
[00:05:43] Shannon Hernandez: podcast therapist.
[00:05:48] I want to introduce to you. Shankar and Vishnu, I actually should say Vishnu and then Shankar, nothing against you, Shankar. But Vishnu is the one that I had met the first time. They are the creators of the [00:06:00] Writer and Geek podcast. They are the leading independent documentary podcast in India. They've been featured by Bangalore mirror, the Bangalore mirror, and also the Hindu and many other areas, Shankar, and a vision of how you guys do.
[00:06:13] And thanks for joining me on The Podcast Therapist.
[00:06:16] Shankar Padmanabhan: Yeah. Thank you for having us. It's our pleasure to be here,
[00:06:19] Vishnu Padmanabhan: absolutely. And that within this festive season, it cannot get better than this. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:23] Shannon Hernandez: So we're recording this, we're recording this just about a week out before Christmas. And you guys, before we were recording, you were saying that in India, Christmas, the holiday itself is pretty big deal, right?
[00:06:35] Vishnu Padmanabhan: Absolutely. Especially we come from Southern part of India from a state called Kerala. It's called God's own country for its beauty and all the other stuff. And there, Christmas is one of the biggest celebrations. It's like the whole state goes on celebration and, people just have party throughout the month,
[00:06:52] Shannon Hernandez: the parties through the month.
[00:06:54] And what happens, like what happens like on new year's Eve? Do you guys even party on new year's Eve and then throughout, or what's the
[00:07:00] Vishnu Padmanabhan: story there? You believe, people don't remember what happens on new year's Eve, because that is one of the most alcohol consuming states in India. And that is a time when people actually consume the it's a record sales that happens really a month of,
[00:07:14] Shankar Padmanabhan: I should add that the definition of party here and that I think it's different.
[00:07:19] It's mostly eating
[00:07:20] Vishnu Padmanabhan: and drinking, not remembering what,
[00:07:22] Shannon Hernandez: I think it's similar here. I just take out the eating part and just keep the drinking and think it'd be pretty similar there. Yeah. Cool. I am so happy to have you guys here. And before we get started, I want to let everyone know that we are recording this particular podcast on video, via stream yard.
[00:07:38] And of course you can create your own seamless recordings of your podcast interviews or stream them live to multiple platforms like Facebook, YouTube, Twitch, LinkedIn, or Periscope. You can learn more about stream yard through my affiliate [email protected] slash stream yard. Now I brought you guys on today because you have had this podcast, I would say, I think it's been about two years, two, three years that [00:08:00] you've had this podcast.
[00:08:00] Has it been longer since you've had the Writer and Geek podcast?
[00:08:04] Vishnu Padmanabhan: I think it should be around three and a half years now. We started mid of 2017 and I think we are in December of 2020.
[00:08:10] Shannon Hernandez: Okay. And so I want to walk the audience through the process and really the Genesis of where this idea of Ryder and geek came from.
[00:08:21] So first of all, tell us what the Writer and Geek podcast is all about. We can expand from there
[00:08:26] Vishnu Padmanabhan: to explain the Genesis of right-brain geek. I might have to go back about maybe 25 years back to our childhood, both of us were these, tiny geeks, I would say, interested in topics of science and astrological, astronomical and space and all that kind of stuff.
[00:08:41] So we used to have a, we had a encyclopedia at home, which our dad had bought many years ago when we were kids. So when we started reading it, we got fascinated by all these topics. And we used to have these conversations late night sitting in our house about spaceships and all that kind of stuff.
[00:08:56] So that interest was always there. And then fast forward to somewhere around 2012, I think that is when I was introduced to the world of podcasting by accident. I must say I was working as a software engineer. I was a developer for a company and I was trying to find a solution for one of the problems, which was about.
[00:09:15] And by doing some Google search, I came across something which was called a podcast and there are two computer geeks sitting and talking about some of the stuff that really fascinated me for one of the reasons is that since I was a kid, I always wanted to be on radio, maybe have my private radio station or something like that.
[00:09:33] But didn't, I, that never happened. So when I saw these guys sitting and talking on internet and, it's like a streaming radio kind of a thing, I was really fascinated. I didn't know anything about it. I went deeper and deeper trying to understand what is this all about? Then I realized that there is there was a plethora of lot of other topics on which there are different number of podcasts around the world making shows and stuff like that.
[00:09:54] And I think at that time there were very less shows coming out from India. Mostly I used to [00:10:00] listen to European and American. Slowly I got into listening. I was listening to a lot of shows. Then one day I thought probably, it might be a good time to try and do something of my own, but frankly speaking, I didn't know what to make a podcast on.
[00:10:13] So maybe two, three episodes. I started speaking about some I don't know, self-improvement kind of thing, which it's been workout and I didn't even publish those episode. I just threw the movie. Shanker, I think at this time was not even exposed to podcasts. Neither was interested.
[00:10:28] It got revived back in 2016, late 2016. When I, again thought, probably this is a time and that is when I was going through multiple videos on YouTube. That is where I came across. One of your videos. I think it was an interview by by a different company. Hey Weber. It was not AI. It was not on your channel, but I came across that video and through that, I got introduced to a channel and, that is where I was like, okay, you know what, probably this is doable.
[00:10:53] Again, didn't have an idea about what to talk about or what the show should be about or what it should be called or whatever it is. I discuss it with Shanker. I think one day then we thought, see, we used to have these conversations, right? Like these geeky conversations about science and technology history and all that, why don't we make a show about it?
[00:11:12] Because in my experience, what I've realized is lot of people know a lot of things and it's surprising how much they don't know as well. And so we thought we will craft a show across this concept where we introduce a topic, give a high level idea about what and how, and all that kind of stuff, not being experts in it, but in the process learners.
[00:11:32] Which sparks the curiosity of a listener and, then he can take it from there. If he's interested in astronomical we will introduce you to it. You go and do your own research and you can go deeper into it. So that is where this whole light ring, the thing started back in 2017.
[00:11:50] Shankar Padmanabhan: yeah. My story is completely different. Yeah. Whatever he said about 25 years ago, reading the encyclopedia that solid the same. [00:12:00] Yeah. I'm just a person who can act who is actually comfortable singing in front of people then talking like this. Okay. So I used to be that kind of a person. And I was not at all interested in listening to podcasts and stuff.
[00:12:15] So the thing is you wouldn't believe it. I started listening to podcasts on a regular basis last year. Really? Oh, yes. Into to having my own podcast. So the thing was like, which new came up to me, like he said, he started a podcast. I think that was in 2015, 14, 20 14. Yeah that's where I was exposed to podcasts for the first time.
[00:12:36] I didn't even know such a thing existed. And then that didn't work out for him then when he came to me in I think Jan of 2017, he said that we will start a podcast. Anyway, we talk about a lot of stuff. Let's just record it and put it out there. I was actually very reluctant. I was like, you know what?
[00:12:52] I don't think I'm ready. I'm up to it. It wouldn't work out. But then after a little bit, post-separation we worked on it for like probably three, four months. And we recorded a few episodes, released it. I was still not comfortable with it. And the thing was like, I never used to listen to a podcast.
[00:13:12] I used to hate my wise and whenever we used to record, I used to make him edit it. So that's the kind of aversion I had with podcasts. But over time, I think it has improved. We still got a lot of, lot to improve, when it comes to production of podcasts and all that. But right now I think we are at a stage where, it's probably something we expect to, blossom and turn into something in the future.
[00:13:35] So my story was like I was never interested in podcasting, but then because of Vishnu, I got introduced to it and reluctantly, I joined it and somehow it worked
[00:13:44] Shannon Hernandez: out well. That's good. I love that you have now embraced the idea of podcasting to share your ideas out. Now, before we move into that next step I want to ask this question about, you listening to podcasts just within the, like the [00:14:00] last year or so.
[00:14:02] What was your impression after doing your own podcast, what was your impression of listening to other people's podcasts and how did that impact maybe what you decided to do on your own podcast?
[00:14:13] Shankar Padmanabhan: Okay. The thing was like, I was more into listening to music. I I used to, I can, just go on listening to music forever, but the thing was like, when I got introduced to podcasts, I was introduced to podcasts, which were like very mainstream, which never resonated with me.
[00:14:27] And it was only last year that I, got to know that there are like true crime podcasts or a little bit of creepy past that kind of podcast. And that's when I started listening to it. I think I started with cereal, but then I moved on and it just hit me. You know what? There is a lot of noise.
[00:14:45] I would bet. And then I was introduced to Wondery and podcasts and all those other networks. And I came across some of some interesting podcast, which was more, which was very well produced and had a lot of knowledge in it after listening to podcasts continuously for the past year rate. It's very easy for me to have a conversation with a stranger.
[00:15:03] If someone approaches me and we talk about something it's very easy for me to just control, like where the conversation goes and I can talk about anything. That's what I gained from podcasts. Like what other podcasts I listened to? It's all basically either proclaim or knowledge base.
[00:15:17] No. What did I implement from what I heard? And so a lot of things that influenced me is one thing is when I heard this podcast called 1865 rate, that's when I realized, how production matters. That is one of the podcast, which is so well produced. And that's when we talked about it.
[00:15:36] And I talked to Vishnu about, we should ramp up the production quality and we started with the series called colonialism in India. So it's still a, it's an ongoing CDs, which already has 11 episodes. And I thought we will introduce a voice or so earlier it used to be, we'll just sit and talk about a topic and that's it's done.
[00:15:57] We edited and put it out. But then with this [00:16:00] CDs, we started adding a little bit of voice over so that we can improve the production quality. There'll be like a storyline kind of thing, which will enhance the listening experience. So that one thing that has a, that's something which I added To apart, because from whatever experience I had
[00:16:15] Vishnu Padmanabhan: listening to other podcasts.
[00:16:17] Okay. If I may add to it. So especially with this colonialism series, india has a very dynamic history with colonialism where, we had multiple visitors from Europe including the Britishers from whom we got independence late 1940s. So that is a very colorful picture, just sitting and rambling about it might probably not interest our listener. So what we thought was, if we start the narrative with a perspective, it could be maybe a soldier who is going on war auto battle or something. You start from his perspective that kind of paints a picture for the listener.
[00:16:50] And I feel that the power of visualization is is what, it's amazing. So when we listen to 1865, which is about the events that followed after the assassination of president Abraham Lincoln we thought, When you listen to that podcast, you can virtually see the actors in your mind, right?
[00:17:05] Actors are, I would say the characters. So we thought inter we didn't do the entire series that way, because our show is probably not a, not in that we are not producing it that way, or we don't have the capability to do that, but we thought maybe a two minute intro into a story starting, maybe in the field where, there's a battle going on or anything great is happening all around, add some sound effects, which makes you feel that you are in that medieval period of trade happening in India or something like that.
[00:17:35] Which makes the reader or the listener more interested, a pulls them in, then you start your story and it makes a lot of sense. And listening to the feedback that came across about the series, I think that worked. People always like to see and hear something. So that is why we thought that was a level up that we did in the last year during this pandemic, that payment.
[00:17:55] Shannon Hernandez: So let's start I want to continue and start moving towards this [00:18:00] building the podcast out and starting from episode one Shankar, you had mentioned in those first episodes that you were pretty nervous, reluctant, whatever it may have been. However you want to describe it, but clearly there was this desire to continue to keep moving, maybe that desire or that, that motivation can come from your brother.
[00:18:19] But let's talk first about the process of getting the podcast up and running, because I know that we see, especially I see on my YouTube channel, it happens every single day. Someone is asking a question about, what should I get as far as equipment is concerned? And then the. They either overthink it or they under think it too much.
[00:18:40] And then they just want to jump into the content, which I have no problem with them jumping into the content, but they want it to sound a certain way. So talk to me about that first step when it came down to getting the equipment, and then I want to talk about the structure of how we'd started developing your own style.
[00:18:56] So who was the person that started with the equipment?
[00:19:00] Vishnu Padmanabhan: I think I was the one who got us started with the equipment tool. I'm this old thinking you're snob a person. Just be it a second. I think our dog is
[00:19:10] Shannon Hernandez: it's okay.
[00:19:13] Vishnu Padmanabhan: As I was saying, I am this person who is a gear snob and someone who overthinks everything.
[00:19:18] So before I started podcast, as I said when I saw your video and I was paying attention to what kind of mix people are using and what mixing software you're using. I think somewhere, you mentioned about using Yamaha MG10XU which is a mixing board that you use for mixing your podcast and stuff like that.
[00:19:34] So along with understanding how to structure a podcast and a lawn stuff, and all that, I was also thinking about what are the different infrastructure stuff that you need behind the scenes? So for me, I did overthink too much, but I was like, if I'm starting, I need a proper setup because the first podcast which I recorded I remember I used an iPad.
[00:19:57] So you can imagine what quality it might have been. [00:20:00] Anyway, I didn't publish it. So I had. But when we came to launching writer in peak, I was I was, I had decided that it should at least sound good. Maybe not as good as some of the partners out there. So we, I went and purchased dependence on mic, which in the hindsight probably wouldn't have been an ideal choice for the environment that we had.
[00:20:19] We have a new little noisy environment here. So condenser mic catches a lot of those noises and we were first so having one mic, usually doesn't cut it. So when we launched our podcast for the first four episodes, I think we use just one Samsung media and the laptop directly plugged into USB.
[00:20:38] And for mixing, we, since the beginning, we have been using audacity and that's how it started off. It was three or four episodes in, I was not happy with it. And I'm I'm sorry to say, but somewhere this kind of, this perfection is a thing that I want, everything. Really good like radio and all that kind of stuff.
[00:20:55] So that I thought, you know what anyway, maybe investing into more care is going to keep us motivated and, make sure that we continue this process. Yeah. Initially it was a big struggle to keep keep us motivated. But I think we both balance each other out where, whenever I feel down, he's Hey, we brought up publish something this week, we have a commitment.
[00:21:15] Or when he feels down, I do it the other way. About five episodes when I decided I need to upgrade my gear. I had one of my friends who was visiting us at the time. So he I ordered a couple of USB XLR mikes, which are the ones you are seeing right now are
[00:21:28] Shannon Hernandez: those, which ones are those? Are those?
[00:21:30] The ATA are
[00:21:31] Vishnu Padmanabhan: 2100. Yeah. They are very similar to the ATR2100. But these were made by a company called NOx, which I feel is a non. Version of 88 year, 2100, because this company doesn't exist anymore. And these mics are completely out of production, but the internal bill structure, if I open it up, it's exactly the same as 2100.
[00:21:52] I don't know if they had a copyright infringement or something like that, but the company doesn't exist, but I got these [00:22:00] really good deals. They were about $39 each. It's really good quality. You get ATR 2100 kind of quality from this. So I got him shipped to India. Then I invested in mg to next.
[00:22:12] You just because you were using it,
[00:22:16] Shannon Hernandez: you were using, you're using the the Yamaha mg, 10 X you, because of me, Hey, flattering,
[00:22:24] Vishnu Padmanabhan: honestly, that is the only reason I was looking for him. It made me more than enough.
[00:22:31] Shankar Padmanabhan: Yeah. I actually remember him ordering it and it came home I think a week later and it was a two.
[00:22:37] We even need this because when he ordered it, I didn't know what it actually is. And then saw the Y.
[00:22:46] Vishnu Padmanabhan: But in hindsight, it has been useful because he does a little bit of music recording and all that. This thing is a multipurpose. So I don't regret. I think that is the best purchase that we had with respect to podcasting girl.
[00:22:57] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:58] Shankar Padmanabhan: When you mentioned that we should get a mixer or something, the first thing that I suggested was, we'll get, go for like focus, scarlet way, two or something. And when they heard your podcast, I think it was the second episode. You said that it's better to invest long-term and get a
[00:23:16] focus, right? It was a bit cool. Huh? It's good that we did it
[00:23:22] Shannon Hernandez: right. It's so th those questions, in my first episode, when we I think it was, these utility episodes for people who first come in contact with my podcast, I'll talk about those pieces of equipment. I've seen I've recorded on the focus, to iTunes and I've seen people who are running, these businesses and they're like, oh yeah, we're going to use the focus. And I it's, again, I it's based on preference, but when someone says to me, I want to do this with my focus, can I do this? And it's no, you can't, you have to move forward as opposed to staying stuck within the same pieces of equipment.
[00:23:57] So when I recommended the empty [00:24:00] Tenex, you, and a lot of my videos and in my podcast it is just the midline piece of equipment. You can go. To the pro caster, which is an additional $300 more than what this is and does almost exactly the same thing other than it's just a little fancier. So that long-term game, like you said, a Shannon card.
[00:24:18] That's what I really want podcasts just to focus on is that you buy the equipment. Yeah. It may cost a little bit in the beginning, but it's a long-term investment. You're going to get so much usage out of it.
[00:24:28] Vishnu Padmanabhan: I totally agree with you that it's all about preference, right? If you look at the audio file industry where, people invest so much into turntables and CD and they argue about Spotify streaming quality, as compared to title and all that kind of stuff, I feel that, yeah, you can sit and argue about all these equipment and what is the best sounding thing.
[00:24:47] Some people say that Scarlet sounds much, much better than them. But, it's all in the context of what you feel is the best for you. And beyond a point it's not even worth discussing, right? So you improve something. How much are you willing to improve it? And what is the return on investment so that diminishing returns that is a code that goes down, right?
[00:25:06] You invest more and more, some at some point of time, it stops just giving you returns. So I feel that of all the purchases, your has been the best. It's not very expensive, it's affordable, but it does a lot more for what you pay for it. So I, I feel that is one of our best purchases.
[00:25:24] But I think that is where we peaked and plateaued. And we decided that, what we need to focus is not on the equipment. Probably, they should be focusing more than the shore. Try to understand mixing and, maybe a little bit of audio editing and all that kind of stuff.
[00:25:37] So we focused and that is still a work in progress. One thing I want to put it put out for, if anyone is deciding to start a podcast, right? Don't overthink stuff. You can start with a good set of lovely mix, which are not that expensive, like it directly into your computer and learn a little bit of maybe free software, like audacity to get you started, right?
[00:25:57] As you see attraction, and as you [00:26:00] see that you are more invested into your podcast and you want to make it, take it to the best level, next level, you can always invest more and more than anything. The content matters. The way you tell your story matters, how it connects with your listeners matters.
[00:26:11] That should be a focus at least for the first half year or a year. Revenue start not the gear, right?
[00:26:18] Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. That's what I think. And I hate to even sound like I'm talking bad about these guys because I do see them all over the place. A lot of them are my friends. A lot of them were acquaintances in the industry here in the United States.
[00:26:30] But yeah. Sometimes, and you touched on this a little bit. Sometimes people just focus way too much on the equipment and it's look, you can only do so much of the equipment. I can't make the, equipment's not going to make the thing that is going to be the thing that really takes you to the top.
[00:26:48] It's the tool. And so I always say the tool is only as good as the person who's using the tool. And so if you're using the tool to whatever capacity that it is, you could on this mixing board, I don't know if you've had a chance to play with the sound effects of the mixing board, but the sound effects alone are just another tool that I'm able to use within my production sounds that you hear within my podcast drops or dumps or sweepers or anything like that.
[00:27:16] So I have to remind podcasts is that you can go so far with the technology, but you're going to reach a point to where you're going to have to say. Forgive me for saying this, but you got to get shit or get off the pot and start building content. You had something to say,
[00:27:28] Vishnu Padmanabhan: Shankar, it's simple, right?
[00:27:30] You give a $50 guitar to Adam Jones and ask him to play it. And versus you playing a, pose and find a dollar, a Stratocaster, which is going to sound better. It's obviously the experience that matters. So that, that it's as simple as actually, even if you look at your journey you were using a, if I remember you were using a Yeti blue song was what you were using for past maybe many years.
[00:27:52] Now you upgraded to assure SM seven B right after joining out so much useful content, which people found really, useful, and you have [00:28:00] made a, built a brand on that cheaper microphone already. That is when you decide, okay. Now probably it's a time to, for an upgrade. And that makes more sense.
[00:28:08] Shannon Hernandez: It's just, you just got to move and steps. And I try to, I tried. Related or try to give this example of it's like anything that you really do. You could relate this to exercise. You could relate this to starting a new job. You could relate this to overeating, where you eat and then you're just like, then you just eat a little bit more and you eat a little bit more.
[00:28:29] Yeah, eventually you are gaining something weight, but you are gaining something right over short-term gains, but it goes with anything you have to start small. And then in order to greet another level, let's look at it on the positive side, like an exercise routine. You could you could maybe even just jog for 10 minutes, but what about a month from now?
[00:28:50] You might be jogging 20 minutes a month from now, if you just kept with that particular routine. So I, yeah I agree staying small and sticking small and then upgrading as you go along and your guys's journey, when you transitioned from the technology side, How do you start developing the content?
[00:29:09] Can we walk through that process of where does a piece of content start? Where does the idea start and walk me through how you go from beginning to production to end.
[00:29:21] Shankar Padmanabhan: Yeah. We had no idea where to start, but we started to be honest. Okay. Look it up. I think it was about social media. Social media is the second one we did learn for the formal education.
[00:29:33] Yeah. Yeah. And it's all over the place. If you look at the first 30, 35 episodes, it's like all over the place. I remember back in 2017 may or something, we sat down and we noted down make some 50 topics, which we could talk about research. And we might have done that on the five out of it.
[00:29:53] That's how you have done. So we didn't have a proper structure when we started out. So most [00:30:00] of the people, they have this issue seeing that, I don't know what to talk about or like I don't have the equipment, but the thing is you just have to put out contentment, figure it out on the way, because when you're just starting, you don't have an audience and it's okay to make mistakes and learn from it.
[00:30:15] So you have a practical, experience of making mistakes and learning from that rather than, trying to make everything perfect before you start. Because no matter what you do, what, how much effort you put in, you're going to make mistakes. That's how we started. We had no idea where to start, but we just started it.
[00:30:33] And over the course of time we figured out, okay, our podcast is more towards, The documentary of stuff and its history and things. Where do we get content from? So as we mentioned, the encyclopedia is one great source. Whatever we have read whenever those topics we think about it, we will keep we know about it, but we don't think most of the people know about it.
[00:30:55] So that's where we get most of the content from an all over the internet. And also we had this tail craft, a book rate. Yeah.
[00:31:03] Vishnu Padmanabhan: We had, I spoke about this encyclopedia physical book, which we had which we serve each other parents bought about 30 years ago. That is, that has lot of stuff, yes, world has moved on to online Wikipedia and YouTube sites, but those physical books, we still carry them around as we move. They're like 30 volumes of, it was a to Z kind of thing. So a lot of topics, which we used to read over and over again as kids. So it's we don't put too much energy into trying to find what should be the topic for next episode.
[00:31:35] It's like randomly it happens. One of the episodes that we did was on toothbrush.
[00:31:41] Shannon Hernandez: I was just listening to that one before we, I have a question about that, but go ahead.
[00:31:48] Vishnu Padmanabhan: Yeah. So we use a toothbrush day. We really, things stops and things. Hey, was that, how did we start using it? What is the history behind this small piece of equipment that you use to clean your [00:32:00] teeth everyday in the morning? So those kinds of questions come day in and day out when we are living our life, just going about it and all that. So yeah, I would say it is more tough then when such thoughts come in, you just motor down.
[00:32:14] Once in a week or something, we'll sit and discuss. Hey so what are the next episodes that we can plan? You will have some topics and I will have some topics. And the research mostly revolves around the person. Who's a distinctive topic. So the reason that we do that, if he's okay. For example serial killers is one of his favorite topics for something.
[00:32:33] I don't know why I don't want to go there. So he,
[00:32:37] Shannon Hernandez: yeah. I don't know. I don't have a good feeling about G Shankar. I feel like, I feel like after this call, you're going to
[00:32:44] Vishnu Padmanabhan: exactly. Yeah. So he so he usually into those kinds of stuff. So if he decides to topic, usually that mostly I would say about 90 to 95% of research is done by the person who decides the topic.
[00:32:58] I would, at the same time when research about some. The reason that we do that is when they come to come sit down to record the conversation seems more natural. And so all the exclamations and surprises and all that you hear toward the conversation, it's all genuine. It's not that I know already about this.
[00:33:15] And I'm just acting as though I am so practice. It's not that I genuinely don't know about stuff, which he is explaining. So that makes it feel like a coffee shop conversation kind of a thing, which is what most of our listeners kind of love. It seems it is unscripted to be honest, honestly, I'm prepared.
[00:33:31] It's not like we do have a bullet point list of things that we need to do. That's all we have, but we then sit and talk about, stuff that's where you might see us diverging from the main content to something else and then going around and coming back. But that is what adds interest to listeners as well.
[00:33:47] Some of them have said that each better, you listen to them first start beginning to lend because you don't know what other stuff might come in with me. So that's the kind of feedback that we've
[00:33:57] Shannon Hernandez: gotten. Yeah, I was. And I was wondering about what [00:34:00] that structure looked like when it came down to the development of the content.
[00:34:03] Do you guys sit down, do you write out bullet points or do you do you script it out and when I've heard your podcast, I'll sometimes. And I'll, I won't be sitting, I'll actually be over there cooking in the kitchen and, I'll listen to the podcast and then I'll be like this is just like listening to a conversation of two dudes who have a vested interest in the topic and they know a little bit about it, but they're also looking to educate the listener as well.
[00:34:27] So the listener, you have the listener in mind also when you're developing the content, is that what every podcast or should be trying to do when they develop a podcast?
[00:34:38] Vishnu Padmanabhan: I let Shanka speak as well, but before that I lied, I'll just add a point. Problem of when we sometimes when you talk to people, we assume that they are at the same level as we are when it comes to certain topics.
[00:34:49] If I'm trying to discuss something with chunka, let's say we are having a conversation. I should be sitting with an assumption that he probably doesn't know anything about it. So when we craft our episodes, we try to go start from the basics, whatever it is, it could be a science episode.
[00:35:04] It could be about Indian history. Most of the Indians should know Indian history, but we assume that, okay some of them might not. So we start from the basics. We tend to think about the questions that might come up in their minds. So we don't leave anything to assumptions thinking, oh, they should be knowing it.
[00:35:18] We don't need to cover it. We try to keep that in mind along with keeping it natural as a flow of conversation, we are not very strict about, oh, these are the. Stuff that we should think about, and these are the exact words we should speak. No, we have a bullet point of topics to cover take a glance at it.
[00:35:35] Okay. This is the next thing that we need to cover, have a conversation around it. So initially it was a bit difficult because translating these thoughts and putting them in words was a difficult thing for us to do because we were not experienced in this at all. And we are both truly introverted people.
[00:35:50] We like meet people only through the internet or
[00:35:53] Shannon Hernandez: some are introverted. Oh, come on.
[00:35:58] Vishnu Padmanabhan: Nobody believed that. To be [00:36:00] honest, I think even when we spoke to other people, we have had couple of few interviews before when we say that podcast, the reason that we are really interested in continuing our podcast and we put so much energy into it is because it's a way for us to do.
[00:36:13] You don't have conversations without literally having to meet someone.
[00:36:18] Shannon Hernandez: So you would say you guys are ambiverts then you're both a little bit of a extrovert and some introvert
[00:36:23] Vishnu Padmanabhan: behind the camera and Mike, we are extroverted, but in person we might not be, it depends on the person on the other side as well.
[00:36:30] Shankar Padmanabhan: You could explain for us, whenever a person reads, reaches out to us to interview us, You may come across as very arrogant and rude, but it's not because we actually like that. It's because we don't want to have a conversation with a stranger.
[00:36:46] Shannon Hernandez: Maybe what it is that they're getting the vibe that you pers you Shankar are going to murder them because you have this vibe of the serial killer.
[00:36:56] No, I'm just teasing. I'm totally teasing. I'm teasing.
[00:37:02] No, I'm just kidding. No, I get it. I'm very much the same way. Everyone's oh, you're so outgoing. I'm like, man, you should see me at home. When I'm around friends, I'm just kinda like a little old hermit who just,
[00:37:10] Vishnu Padmanabhan: yeah. And one other thing that I would like to add is that, we don't overthink.
[00:37:14] It are not like where we have to be perfect with. Does it should be like a science paper out of a university or something like that. We are going to make mistakes. We get feedback from people saying that, Hey, the thing that you mentioned in last episode, it's not. We accepted. We predict that in the next episode.
[00:37:29] So we don't take it too seriously. Nobody should even take life too seriously. I feel so. So I think that gives the fun in it. The moment we start becoming too strict about stuff, I think you start losing interest.
[00:37:43] Shankar Padmanabhan: When we researched, see my idea is that you can not, this, so why you want entertainment and our podcast is not just not that entertaining too.
[00:37:53] It's more about the knowledge, right? If you look at it, if you compare this to like music and lyrics rate, what attracts you [00:38:00] to a particular audio, like a song is the music, how it flows, the melody and stuff, but what it's a lust kind of thing, but. You fall in love with the song when the lyrics is good.
[00:38:13] You think so? That's my philosophy. Like I may be like, I may a song just because it's catchy, but if it has to stay in my life forever as an evergreen thing which I go back and listen to it over and over again, over time, it should have good lyrics. So our podcast is something which is a little entertaining, but it has, it also has that lyrical aspect, which is the content, the knowledge that you'll gain when you listen to it first on things particularly this episode where we talked about cyanide moon or serial killer,
[00:38:46] Vishnu Padmanabhan: you the cyanide to, yeah.
[00:38:47] Shannon Hernandez: Okay. Before you continue, let's just be straight. The true crime podcasts that have that content, it is wildly fascinating to learn about those things. You're like really that guy. That anyway, continue. I don't mean to interrupt. Sorry. Yeah.
[00:39:02] Shankar Padmanabhan: So when I was researching on that guy the thing was like it took me almost three weeks of research to get information about the thing was like it's not a serial killer from the U S so it does not have any
[00:39:22] like Ted Bundy or Gaddy lives. Yeah, I had to go through hundreds of articles, which were, most of them were not like what does that mean mainstream media? So I had to like get more content on it and probably like cross check whether it's actually true what they're saying in this article.
[00:39:39] So it took me almost like three weeks of research. When a person listens to it, they know that, okay, these guys have done the research and it's actually true. So we actually whatever we say, we try to give reference to it on the source so that they know that it's actually a, whatever we are seeing.
[00:39:54] It's not made up. It's all fact-based right. So what, whenever we resource, what we try to do [00:40:00] is yeah, it might be entertaining for some people, but I hope it is. And the content is the main thing. If a person listen to it, they should, they'll gain some knowledge. That's what we try to move 12.
[00:40:11] When we, when the, yeah, that,
[00:40:14] Shannon Hernandez: that is something that like, I ha I have learned when I've listened to your podcast. And I was, it was a couple months ago. I was listening to your podcast. And in fact there was a specific time. I can't even remember which episode it was, but I was, I remember I was cooking dinner cause that's my pastime.
[00:40:29] And I'll cook dinner, listen to a podcast and. All I remember when I listened to your podcast was that I gained knowledge almost immediately from the moment that I was listening to it all the way to the end and I felt fulfilled. And the payoff of your podcast gave me not only knowledge, but entertain me as well.
[00:40:50] And I was like, okay, these guys are on to something they're on to doing this. And then I think that was around the time when you Vishnu, you reached out to me and I think you had said that's when the podcast was being featured on or someone had reached out to you from one of the local newspapers or one of, I forget what it was.
[00:41:07] And they had said that they had found your podcast to be one of the best podcasts in.
[00:41:12] Vishnu Padmanabhan: Yeah, I think that is exactly when we've got featured in one of the newspapers yet. I think I cannot remember which one, but yeah, I think that was around the time and coming to the knowledge part, right? That is what really one of the motivating factors as well, at least for me I have a lot of my friends and colleagues who listen to the show.
[00:41:31] They usually, before this all this world went upside down. They used to commute from home to office. They get about half an hour of journey, right? So they used to say, Hey, half an hour episode of yours, I start from home. I started playing it by the time I am in office, it's done. And I have learned something new and we stay in the state called Karnataka in the city of.
[00:41:51] Which is not our home state. We come from Kayla, as I mentioned earlier. So in India, the special thing about different states is that it each and every state has a [00:42:00] different language. You can imagine
[00:42:02] Shankar Padmanabhan: linguistically
[00:42:05] Vishnu Padmanabhan: the borders of the states are decided based on the language that you speak.
[00:42:08] So we come from a completely different background and language. And when we moved to Karnataka, it is a new language here called Kannada, which is a very old language, about 2000, 2,500 years old. One of the things that fascinated me was to learn about the history of Kannada, right? So why learning?
[00:42:24] We thought we'll do an episode. And we did, when we started a series called languages, it's still, I would say it's still in progress. Although we had published only one episode. So yeah, so we decided to pick Kannada as a first language to discuss and I did some research. It was really fascinating to me that to learn few of the things about the language and when we publish the.
[00:42:46] Many native Kannada speakers from my office and my friends. And even otherwise they came back saying that we have been speaking this language since the time that we were born. But yesterday, when I listened to your show is when I got to know so many things about my own language, and this is not our native language, but other things interesting for me was how in Greek place from a fifth century had a reference and Kannada language lines within there.
[00:43:11] Please, that means there was a trade between the state and a Greece back in those days. So those kinds of astounding historical facts, that is what we tried to find. Then, put it in a show so that, people learn something about their culture and their society and all that kind
[00:43:26] Shannon Hernandez: of right.
[00:43:27] There's a podcast here in the states specifically within my state. It's called valley one-on-one, it's actually within the city of Phoenix area. And there are things w it's a podcast that is a very NPR ish, but what they talk about is we'll talk about the history of a certain location in Arizona or the city what a monument, what the history was behind that monument.
[00:43:51] And then they'll go further and deeper. And they'll examine some of the news articles that they've written over the years, because it's all affiliated with a newspaper here in town. And [00:44:00] so those are the things that, like I thought, wow, I didn't realize that about this particular mansion, or I didn't realize this about this particular mountain.
[00:44:07] And I learned something and the podcast seems to do really well. And I think that is where, when it comes to developing and creating content is what can you do to. Educate someone to, to becoming, I guess a little bit better every day. And so that's what I think you guys that's why I really like to just give you guys the kudos that you deserve for your program, because you do that.
[00:44:30] So well with your listeners, I want to move into this area where we talk about what your podcast has done for you personally. What have you gained specifically out of your own podcast?
[00:44:50] Vishnu Padmanabhan: Yeah, so
[00:44:52] Shankar Padmanabhan: first things first, I used to hate my voice. Like not the singing voice, but the talking voice, but over time I have come to, come to a place where I'm like, okay, it's it doesn't sound that bad.
[00:45:06] It's okay. It's still located. And one, one important thing is that I've gained from podcasting. Is that I can see justly, hold on a conversation for how much longer I want. I can meet a stranger. I'll obviously have a starting trouble with them, but then once we get into the groove I can easily jump ships from topics to topics and just sit down and have a conversation for days that is for short.
[00:45:32] And what else is that? I, yeah one major thing that we have gained is I think when we started podcasting, we thought that we are the only ones who were doing this in India. Okay. Probably six months down the line. We got to know that there are other people who are doing the same thing in Bangalore and which resulted in us having a sort of meetup online.
[00:45:54] And then a few months later we met up in person and which led to building a [00:46:00] community. And we are part of our two-part collective rate. Yeah. No. We'd started with three podcasts, just sitting together and having a conversation about what will happen in the field of podcasting over the years.
[00:46:11] Now we have around how many people
[00:46:13] Vishnu Padmanabhan: in that community meetup. We had it on people from across, how many, seven 70, wow. Who could make a few of them had taken a three hour long flight to come over for the meal.
[00:46:26] Shannon Hernandez: Really? No. Okay. So go ahead.
[00:46:31] Shankar Padmanabhan: Yeah. So from three to 70, we have a big community now which is all about, helping each sort of, ER, therefore it's a little like whenever a new pot concert comes up and asks you a question on Instagram or like through email or something.
[00:46:46] It's a community that helps people, so do you get around? I get around almost like two, at least two requests over the week asking like what equipment should be used. So we have a community which can help budding podcast is mostly independent. Podcasts is here in India, especially in Bangalore.
[00:47:03] Yeah, this community is one thing that, it's a community of like-minded people. If you look at it, all of them are introverts despite people who are of the same leg. So yeah, so it's a beautiful community that we have. So that's one thing I'd surely say that we have gained through this years of podcasting
[00:47:23] Vishnu Padmanabhan: via the podcast.
[00:47:25] To me, it has been both personal and otherwise as well. He was mentioning about community. So let me start with that. I used to always struggle to understand what is it. I can give back. And when the whole thing about you are being held by so many different people around the community, knowingly and unknowingly, what am I even doing?
[00:47:45] I used to go to work, come back, eat, sleep, and then go to work. So when we started podcasting is when we realized I think we got an invitation from one of the top colleges in Bangalore to give a seminar. I remember this. Yeah. So [00:48:00] that is the first time I realized, what, I think we might have something to offer to the society.
[00:48:05] It could be in the form of training, giving trainings or seminars about podcasting. And that was the first thing we did. I think it was about six, not even six months, maybe three to four months after we started a show. And that really, we got a good response and, students started coming up and I was really fascinated.
[00:48:22] I was like, you know what. Whatever happens this great way to help people, especially young students who can build a portfolio, even before they get out of college about the topics that they like, which might help them in future or their employment and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, as you said, we built a community our own podcast is, and I'm glad to say that some of the people we helped back in the day in around two to three years ago, there was someone who was celebrating his hundredth episode recently.
[00:48:50] And I was like, you see that transformation in people, right? Where they were and, just starting out, not knowing how to get about it. We were even, we started, nobody told us how to do stuff. We just found on our own, but we wanted them to have someone to tell them how it's done.
[00:49:05] So that is one aspect of a community and that, as I said, we are introverts. So this is the only way that, we get introduced to new people and sure. You find healthy relationships and stuff like that. The second aspect is for me as well was it's almost that as the first one is like networking and stuff like that, even within the organization that I worked for it has helped me have really good conversation with upper management people who are really into podcasting.
[00:49:29] So at the beginning of this year, we had few visitors, a few managers coming down, directors and managers coming down from the U S we were just casually talking and one of them was this, a hardcore NPR fan. He was a big fan of NPR and their podcasts and all that. And I told him how we had one of NPS superheroes Shankar Vedantam who hosts it.
[00:49:52] Doesn't bring, come down to a coffee shop near our house, and we had a chat about. He was completely blown up.[00:50:00]
[00:50:02] Shannon Hernandez: And
[00:50:02] Vishnu Padmanabhan: that was such a sense of satisfaction for me, feeling that people whom, many of them consider to be a rock stars. They are, sparing some time to come down and speak and sit and have a conversation.
[00:50:14] Shankar Padmanabhan: Yeah, it was, we met someone on Wikipedia who has a piece on
[00:50:22] Shannon Hernandez: you're like mind blown was
[00:50:26] Vishnu Padmanabhan: in fact he was so humble that he decided that let us decide where to meet. We met in a nice coffee shop near our house, and that was like, man, did we come so far? When did this happen?
[00:50:39] Shannon Hernandez: No, I w I would say, and the way I look at it from this perspective on this end, and it was been in conversations with you Vishnu, where.
[00:50:48] In those first days of you helping this community, building this community. I remember when you went to the university and you were speaking both you and your brother we're talking you guys, I would say, have been the trailblazers for your community because now I think now that you have this community, you have this network of people and now, and I believe that you had said at the point in time, when you first started your podcast and we were communicating, you said that podcasting was not a big thing, that it was not that big of a thing in India.
[00:51:18] And now here we fast forward. And now you're being featured in newspapers. You're being featured on podcasts. You're being featured wherever it may be. Universities, wherever you guys to me. Do you feel like you guys are the trailblazers to this?
[00:51:33] Vishnu Padmanabhan: I think humbly.
[00:51:40] Shankar Padmanabhan: I
[00:51:41] Vishnu Padmanabhan: don't know, see again, as I said we might not admit to it. It could be, or it couldn't be, I don't know. We probably are not the best judges. Most
[00:51:48] Shankar Padmanabhan: of our listeners don't get back to us too often. So
[00:51:53] Vishnu Padmanabhan: I think there is a collective effort for sure. Have we been the, the people who we need and of the group that [00:52:00] initiated it?
[00:52:00] Yeah, probably yes. That is something that we are really proud of. As I say, as we said we started with a small number of people three, or I think two or three of us just, Hey, you also do podcasting. Let's meet up and talk about what podcasting is all about. That became five member team.
[00:52:15] Next, the week after that, we had our own, the new faces who were like, Hey, we want to start, how did you guys do it? And we were not expert. We were like two or three months into maybe six months into our journey. But we thought, okay, this is what we learned. And this is how you can start. And this, these are the mistakes that we made, which you could avoid.
[00:52:32] Two years down the line, they're publishing their a hundred episodes, sponsorships. Then we are like a, so that did make some different somewhere.
[00:52:40] Shannon Hernandez: There was, there's just this thirst for podcasts, knowledge or podcasts entertainment in India.
[00:52:46] Vishnu Padmanabhan: Exactly. See India. As I said, I think the revolution happened somewhere between 2017 and 2018.
[00:52:53] If you look at most of the popular podcasts that would have started around that time, right before that there were podcasts, which had started very popular ones, but that was it. There was no community of podcasters or whatever it is right now. If you see, we have excellent shows, even coming up during this pandemic time who have got recognition and who have made it big in six months.
[00:53:14] And I would say they had a very good foundation, they knew what they are doing. Probably because there's a good community here to help out. Yeah. So
[00:53:24] Shankar Padmanabhan: like when we started, it was a time when we had to like, explain if you want to explain an Android user, how to listen to us. It was like a 10 step thing.
[00:53:32] You go to this place. Either you go to a website or you download some other app pocket costs or like Castbox, and then you listen to it or. What I am, the growth was exponential, lik Google podcast scheme. Then we have the, got a podcast on Spotify and through that time, and the technological change happened, they were like exponential growth in people who were doing podcasts.
[00:53:54] So yeah, one major thing, which suggest how it seems to spec, [00:54:00] whenever we used to go for conducting seminars early on at two-spirit, we used to tell the students podcasting is it's near, since it is, we don't do that anymore.
[00:54:08] Vishnu Padmanabhan: And I think one of the things that really contributed to more number of producers coming out is that the listenership has gone up like drastically, right?
[00:54:16] Even if you look, take all the major partners, let's say Joe Rogan show or anything like that. I think India is one major chunk of India has a major chunk of listeners for all those shows. People are getting into this culture of listening to podcasts every day. Even I, when I used to go to office before this down.
[00:54:35] The commute was the time for me to listen to it, like two, three episodes of my favorite shows. So that person has already started, I think it's been maybe two or three years now. And that increase in number of listeners has created a demand for local content as well. Maybe we might not be able to relate entirely what happens in us, whether it is politics or culture or whatever it is. So you have some shows, we'd start here and talk about Indian culture and Indian politics and all that, which people, which makes sense. So that created a wired and, people have started taking advantage of that. And I'm happy to say that India is emerging as one.
[00:55:11] Biggest countries in terms of listenership and as well as people producing podcasts. And that is a really great place to be.
[00:55:18] Shankar Padmanabhan: That's incredible. Just to add onto it. One more thing that we gained through podcasting over the years is if you remember correctly during the start of the pandemic, great.
[00:55:26] We had not been podcasting for four months or something. We had one episode in four months, but then once we had so much time to ourselves we just started, we just went ballistic and started the CDs, colonialism in India and all that. And we got a lot of response from people, whether it being like, saying that your podcast is good, this episode is good.
[00:55:44] Or like asking for some replays on equipment and stuff, how to start a podcast. It has definitely added some purpose to our life. Podcasting has clearly become a part of our life which is like bringing some meaning to our life, [00:56:00] seeing that, giving back to the community in whatever way
[00:56:02] Vishnu Padmanabhan: possible.
[00:56:03] Exactly. And especially in my stream of work in it, you usually end up spending like 10 hours, working late nights and stuff like that. This is a way for me to unwind and thing that, okay, life is not just about this work. That is something is that I am really interested in and I invest my time.
[00:56:19] And that, that kind of satisfaction, I think you cannot probably put a value right there.
[00:56:24] Shannon Hernandez: So I'm going to explain. Either in this episode or the next episode or maybe I've already explained it. Who knows when I'll mention this, but I was in a I was in a call yesterday with Edison research here in the states and they were doing a top 10 for the, for 2020.
[00:56:38] And it T I want to touch on something that you had talked about, Vishnu, where you talked about, how, when you listen, it's just like a way to release you just listen, because it's like, you could do whatever 10, 12 hour days, but then you come home and you can listen to a podcast.
[00:56:50] And that falls directly in line with what some of the research has already said. In saying that people are listening to podcasts when the. Either cooking or the releasing the average drive time is anywhere between 40 minutes to an hour to go to their jobs in the states. But mostly people are listening when they are taking time to unwind and do what they need to do, whether it be cooking, dinner, cleaning doing laundry, whatever it may be just seems to be part of the activity.
[00:57:19] And now that we are starting to see an increase in smart speaker technology, that is something that is helping the increase in podcast consumption.
[00:57:37] So we're going to wrap up right there with today's episode and I want to return. On Thursday with part two of this episode. So part one today obviously is the episode where it's telling some pod-casters story, but also sharing a little bit of inspiration to hopefully give you some ideas behind what you can do with your podcast.
[00:57:57] And maybe you didn't get inspiration from today's episode. That's [00:58:00] completely fine. Maybe you just enjoy enjoyed the story. That's completely fine. You're going to. Here's something eventually that is going to spark an idea based on someone else's experience. And that's why I wanted to share Vishnu and Jake shank ours, a journey into the podcasting industry and realm itself.
[00:58:18] So we're going to come back with part two of their episode, which I do a speed round of questions with them. And some of them relate to podcasting and I think a lot of them don't even relate to podcasting, but we dive down this rabbit hole of specific topics that it really takes on the form of a Writer and Geek podcast itself.
[00:58:37] And the conversation just goes on and on. It's going to be a little bit more entertaining for you. So I highly recommend that you listen to it coming up this Thursday. So if you have not subscribed to the podcast, make sure that you do so hit the subscribe button. If you're on apple podcasts, if you're on Spotify, hit the follow button, wherever you are listening to your podcasts, you can go ahead and subscribe.
[00:58:55] I would really appreciate it. And of course, if you are listening on apple podcasts, I would really love. But you don't even have to listen on apple podcasts. You could just do this on your own, you a head on over to apple podcasts and leave a rating and a review the reviews, help me understand what you, the podcast or get out of these podcasts and how I could become a better podcast and create content that really resonates more with you.
[00:59:18] So I would really appreciate you if you did that. And of course, tomorrow I've got a brand new YouTube video that is going to be dropping for you. So I head on over to my YouTube channel. You can just go on over to youtube.com. Shannon Hernandez that should be able to get you out over there and have you subscribed.
[00:59:35] But if you don't know if that's too much for you, just head on over to the podcast, therapist.com and you can see my entire website where I have my YouTube channel listed up in the top navigation bar, and that will allow you to go on over there, click and subscribe to the YouTube video itself.
[00:59:51] So that's going to go ahead and do it for today's podcast therapist. I hope you enjoyed it, and we'll be talking to you on Thursday. Have a great week. Everyone[01:00:00]
[01:00:17] Vishnu Padmanabhan: media productions.
